Late in the year, in December D5025 was transferred to Bletchley (1E).
1975
24025's last transfer was to Crewe in May, by July it was one of many taken out of service and placed in store.
1976
24025 remained in store until finally withdrawn at the end of January, continuing to be stored at Crewe.
Photograph courtesy Tony Sayer
24025 in store at Crewe on September 25th 1975. The locomotive clearly shows the four upper & lower grills, normally associated with the early build of Derby's Class 24's. Also visible on the near cab is one of the headboard brackets. This also shows the radiator frost screen without the midlevel break.
1977
On January 10/11th 24025/29/33/34 formed the 06.45 Crewe - Swindon Works hauled by 25269. By July the scrappers at Swindon had finished their work on 24025.
That a machine is simply the sum total of its parts is clearly evident in the construction of a steam, diesel or electric locomotive. Many interchangeable components make up a locomotive, and at the times of a Works visit these worn parts are removed and replaced by similar new or repaired items. At these times the identity of a locomotive can become
fragmented, in particular with steam locomotives, whose main components - the boiler and the frames don't carry an easily visible number which might be used as a method of identification for the whole locomotive.
For BR's diesels and electrics the body is usually the largest and most visible 'component' and the most obvious one to stick a number on which will follow it through its career. Of course from time to time identities may get mixed up, usually when locomotives are in for a heavy repair, especially at the stage when the repaired locomotives are
receiving a fresh coat of paint and are having their numbers added.
D5025/24025 seems to have been one of those locomotives that underwent a most severe identity crisis.
From the collection of Real Photographs Co Ltd (their ref R8253) comes this view of the problematic 5025 with the body style that is more typical of one of the earlier Derby built machines. This view is at Crewe sometime in 1969. If one of the early machines was at Derby alongside D5025 a numerical switch could have taken place. The numbering on the above view and the reasonable condition of the paintwork suggests 5025 must have been at Derby Works sometime during 1968 or very early 1969. There is no suggestion in the photograph that the 'D' prefix has been painted over as happened so frequently in the post-steam era.
D5025 was part of the second Derby built batch D5020 - D5029 and so
carried with it some significant changes that clearly made it stand out from the first twenty built at Derby. As built the early members of the batch carried on one side five grills on the upper body panel and four grills on the upper body panel of the opposite side. Unfortunately in those first twenty locomotives this was not a uniform standard, some carried one grill less on each side and this was carried through to D5020 - D5029!
As a young spotter in the early 1970's these fine detail nuances would have been completely lost on yours truly when we came across 5025! However a visit to Swindon Works during June 1977 found 24025 parked in a nice spot leading to the typical photograph being taken. Which like most was filed away for a rainy day viewing. And eventually a close examination of the slide showed that 24025 was not all that it should be.
Unlike its sisters in the D5020 - D5029 series D5025 carried the extra ventilator grills found on each side, normally associated with the D5000 - D5019 series. It also carried on one side only one of the split frost screens originally fitted to D5000 - D5006. And perhaps the strangest of all is that both cabs carried the headboard brackets that were fitted to D5000 - D5014 & D5017 when they operated on the Southern Region. And thrown into the mix was a photograph from the Real Photograph Co. showing all these unusual features in a photograph taken back in 1969!
The simpliest answer to this question is to find an early view of D5025 to confirm initially if it was built with the extra ventilator grills as found on each side of the first twenty locomotives or was it built in line with the batch D5020 - D5029 which each carried one less grill on each side? If D5025 was built with the extra grills then all this is much ado about nothing, but until those photographs show up the mystery remains! During December 2008 a view was acquired of D5025 in primer at Derby Works, but no number is clearly visible in the photograph.
Since the complete photographic option is not yet currently available to me its down to a little bit of sleuthing to see if the mystery with D5025/24025 can be clarified.
One major clue is that both cabs of D5025 carry the headboard brackets as applied to those Class 24's that were loaned to the Southern Region. The locomotives that carried the headboard brackets were D5000 - D5012, D5017.
A second clue is that the bodywork style inherited by D5025 was only carried by the early Derby built examples D5000 - D5007, D5013 - D5019. The batch D5008 - D5012 carried the later style of four grills on one side and three on the other.
If one matches these two groups then the possibilities shrink to D5000 - D5007, D5013 & D5017. It is also possible to include D5013 - D5016, D5018 & D5019, this latter would also require the double cab swap since none of this group were allocated to Southern Region.
The table below based on photographic evidence reveals the following:
The second and third columns refer to the number of grills on the top row of each side.
| Photographic evidence regarding the grills and headboard brackets. |
| Loco: |
Grills when new: |
Grills at withdrawal: |
Headboard brackets at withdrawal |
| D5000 |
5/4 |
5/4 |
Both cabs & two split frost screens |
| D5001 |
5/4 |
5/4 |
Both cabs & one split frost screen |
| D5002 |
5/4 |
?/4 |
No.2 cab & at least one split frost screen on 4/4 side |
| D5003 |
5/4 |
5/4 |
Both cabs & two split frost screens |
| D5004 |
5/4 |
5/? |
At least No.1 cab (Headboard brackets & frost screen) |
| D5005 |
5/4 |
?/? |
Only one frost screen after 1965 |
| D5006 |
5/4 |
5/4 |
Headboard bracket No.2 cab only, two frost screens |
| D5007 |
5/? |
5/? |
Headboard bracket No.2 cab at least |
| D5008 |
4/? |
4/3 |
No brackets either end |
| D5009 |
4/3 |
4/3 |
Brackets No.2 cab at least |
| D5010 |
?/3 |
4/? |
Brackets No.1 cab at least |
| D5011 |
4/3 |
?/3 |
Brackets No.2 cab at least |
| D5012 |
4/? |
?/3 |
Brackets No.2 cab at least |
| D5013 |
5/4 |
?/? |
No Brackets |
| D5014 |
?/? |
5/4 |
Brackets on No.2 cab, not on No.1 cab |
| D5015 |
5/? |
?/? |
Brackets never fitted |
| D5016 |
5/? |
?/4 |
Brackets never fitted |
| D5017 |
?/4 |
5/? |
Brackets No.1 cab at least |
| D5018 |
5/? |
?/? |
Brackets never fitted |
| D5019 |
?/4 |
?/? |
Brackets never fitted |
So where does all this meaningless trivia leave us?
The photographic record available to me is currently incomplete so the answer is uncertain.
The obvious candidates would be the ex-SR allocated locomotives with the original extra grills and headboard brackets, but 5000 - 5004, 5006 & 5007 all ended their days with the expected grills and brackets still in place.
One candidate might be D5005, which would fit the bill nicely, it carried the headboard brackets, had the extra grills and was missing the split frost screen on one side only and ended its days at Derby in 1969.
Possibly an answer..............
The supposition that maybe D5005 and D5025 swapped identities whilst they were both at Derby Works during 1969 now appears to be what actually happened. The photograph below is taken at Derby during 1969 and show a Class 24 numbered as D5025, but the livery is that of the two tone green style which was only carried by a few members of the Class and D5025 was not one of them. And since the livery was carried by D5005 and the photograph show a locomotive with the characteristics of the D5000 - D5019 batch it therefore draws the conclusion that essentially the view below is of D5005.
Of course it would be interesting to see photographs (if any exist) of the locomotive that was broken up at Derby represented by D5005. Presumably this was 'D5025', possibly with accident or fire damage or general poor condition. At this time there were already a number of Class 24's in store, with the first batch built (D5000 - D5019) being hitlisted, so it would have been of no surprise to find D5005 withdrawn at this time.
I guess in the fullness of time the answer will come forth with regard to the precise reasons for the identity swap.
Photograph courtesy Brian Lockwood / Collection of Transport Topics, Martin High.
D5025/D5005 in the main erecting shop at Derby Works sometime during 1969.
With thanks to Martin High of Transport Topics for allowing use of the D5025 view at Derby Works during 1969, Thank You!!
Page added September 15th 2007
Last updated February 28th 2009
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